Christmas Reflections
We are well into the new year now but the recent discussions about man’s sinful nature brought up a question I haven’t ever thought about regarding the birth of Christ.
One of the foundations of the faith is the virgin birth. It is so important because the Savior had to become human but without a sinful nature. I’ve always thought of it as Jesus getting his humanity from Mary and His Godliness from God. In other words, part of God and part of Mary joining together to create Jesus who was both fully God and fully man.
At a lunch last week, I was introduced to the idea that Jesus was created fully by God and only used Mary as a surrogate mother. Still fully God and fully man but not really being related to Mary at all. What do you think and why?
Either way, now that the hustle and bustle of the season is over, take a deep breath and reflect on Emmanuel — the God of the universe being born as a human baby and living in complete communion with God, the Father, from day one until He ascended back into Heaven.
February 17th, 2006 at 12:18 pm
Hmm…
My initial objection to that idea is that Jesus’ lineage is primarily traced through Mary, so that He was the descendant of Rahab, etc. I know He was technically “traced” through Joseph, but I think His belonging to the house of Joseph was enough to make Him part of the “house of David” as well. Also, He had to be the seed of the woman (Eve) — not limiting God here, but I tend to think that He used the ordinary means of getting Eve’s seed all the way through to Mary, without having to “implant” that half of it. (Would He really be “the seed” Genesis talked about if He didn’t have Eve’s DNA through Mary?) Also, Eve would (eventually) be saved through childbirth…why would that matter if she didn’t have to give birth to Mary (eventually) for Jesus to save us?
February 21st, 2006 at 11:53 am
if jesus was fully created in mary and she simply served as a sarogot
then how could he have been fully man and fully God? it would seem that if he didn’t have mary and/or joseph’s dna in him then why would God let the gosple writers lie to us by telling us that he was of the house of david? why would God let them lie to us by giving us his genelogies if they were not true?
it would seem that he may have to have mary’s dna in him
but it is possible that God took both mary’s and joseph’s and put them together in mary
or
maybe our understanding of how we are really created is inadequate. maybe we are less dna and more spirit.
February 21st, 2006 at 12:29 pm
*surrogate
I don’t know about combining Mary and Joseph’s DNA…since the sin nature is ostensibly transmitted through the man, I don’t think Joseph had anything to do with it–even on a genetic level. I’m merely being speculative right now…
February 22nd, 2006 at 10:13 am
ditto on the speculation
we don’t know because we aren’t told
off topic
my spelling is wobbly
February 22nd, 2006 at 3:36 pm
A couple of thoughts here.
If the sin-nature is only coming through the man (male) and not through “man” then one would conclude that if we could clone a woman without involving a man, then the offspring would be sinless?? I dont believe this is the case though. I believe the sin-nature comes through “man” (male or female) and that Jesus’ life as a man began as an implanted fertilized egg, and therefor did not have Mary or Jsephs DNA. He still was the “seed” (offspring of Mary) but was born without sin just as Adam was, however, this second Adam remained sinless and this, in conjunction with being fully God, qualified Him alone to take on our sin.
Any thoughts?
December 30th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Many options:
1) Form of cloning without the use of Mary per se but using the seed of the woman (Eve) - a means of getting Eve’s seed all the way through to Mary, without having to “implant” that half of it.
2) In God’s “Lab” the DNA of Adam (which already has holy spirit breathed into it) and Eve will be available.
These were used in a form of IVF and then the fertilised egg was implanted into Mary without the need for the DNA of Mary or Joseph.
3) Assuming we all descended from Adam and Eve the DNA does not have to belong to a “later” tribe making God part of an ethnic group which is not easy to explain away.
4) God only has to “will” and it will be done as if by “magic”. The creation of Adam and Jesus seem quite similar except that the “human intervention” in the case of Jesus was dealt with by making it “appear” as if He “arrived” via a human being - Mary.