Where’s The Fruit?
So now that you know where I’m coming from in my previous post, here’s the real question.
Where are the works and fruit that are to be evidence of our faith? I would say that most people that can show their fruit are serving in regards to the local church. Just as God called the Levites to be priests, some are called to serve the local body. In this area we must be careful in our motivation. I think of people that enjoy the power and responsibility more than viewing it as service unto the Lord. We must also be careful in letting church service be our free pass for the rest of our lives. If I asked you to show your faith by your works (a legitimate Biblical question) and all you can say is, “I have prepared coffee and donuts for our Sunday School class faithfully for 45 years” then you might want to ask what you’re doing with the other 99% of your time.
Here is a reminder of some of the things that Christ mentioned would be evidence of His sheep. “For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.” We are also commanded to, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.”
I come up short. I feel good that I am living morally and so I assume I have given my whole life to Christ but in reality hours, dollars, words and deeds are wasted in my own disobedience and for my own gain. Have I just deceived myself or am I living as if a minimum quota of obedience has been met? I know that works will not save me but this stirring in my spirit calls me to be intentional about them. The desire is there to obey Christ in not just what I don’t do, but also in what I do — caring for others and sharing the Gospel.
So can you show me your faith by your works?
October 14th, 2005 at 7:04 am
I am guessing that last one is a rhetorical question…
October 14th, 2005 at 9:40 am
It’s up to you. I just asked it because it’s a legitimate question that is rarely asked in Christian circles. We endlessly talk (and blog) about conceptual ideas of faith and belief but in the end what do we have to show for it? (Feel free to answer that one too if you want to.) :^)
October 14th, 2005 at 11:04 am
You are correct David. That question is biblical. James said he would show someone his faith by the works that he does. It sounds arrogant, but if James could say it shouldnt we be able to?
It begs the question if I had to show someone my faith by the works that I do, what would I show them?
It seems we’ve made serving physical needs of others into a personal option of our faith. ie a spiritual gifting rather than evidence of True Faith.
It seems ok in the church to look at other “believers” around us to see whether we have REAL faith.
I mean look at most of the folks around us. They say the right words, they worship the right way, they serve in a nice neat ministry, and go on a mission trip now and then. They dont work with the poor, homeless, imprisoned etc.. etc.. And yet obviosly they have REAL faith, and my life is just like theirs, so why question anything?
Its easy to say at this point, “whoa hold on there, we are saved by grace alone.” “Lets not judge, We are all in different stages of growth in our walk” Or “God hasnt called me to (that) yet.”
James makes it clear what kinds of works are produced from REAL faith…
Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked etc… Isnt that just what Jesus used as the yardstick for whether the “goats and sheep” really knew Him or not?
I’m not saying that one should run out and feed a homeless person to be sure of his salvation, but shouldn’t one examine his salvation if his heart is not fervently bent on physically going and meeting these physical needs of the lowliest people, regularly?
Is it just something we do 10% of the time and leave the rest to others with a spiritual gifting who are called? Or are these works, what should, out of love, be the sacrificial calling, drive and purpose of the faith of all of us?
It might sound radical, but according to James and Jesus there doesnt seem to be much leeway in the True Faith test…
So as you say David, If it was asked of us “Can you show me your faith by your works?” Could we?
October 14th, 2005 at 11:22 am
hey dave - thought you’d be encouraged by hearing of some of the fruit that came from your labors. we’ve seen at least 2 people accept Christ who’s first touch with church was the 80s night that you played in! in additon, have received a lot of feedback from those who brought “unchurched” friends that they are now engaged in spiritual discussions. maybe we’d bear more fruit if we got our hands in the dirt more…
October 14th, 2005 at 11:52 am
David, I think you have a valid question, but I also think we need to be careful about where we direct it. The Bible seems to instruct us to ask this of ourselves more than of others. When we start judging “most people” or look at someone else and begin to evaluate and assess whether or not bringing coffee and doughnuts is adequate fruit for real faith, are we not putting ourselves in the position of judging another man’s servant (ala Romans 14:4)? We only see other’s externally, and we have very limited responsibility for them. We know our own heart and circumstances intimately, and we have full responsibility for them. I would argue that this should be an inwardly directed question more than an outwardly directed one.
October 14th, 2005 at 11:55 am
Hey Tim, great example‚Ķ One could easily have stood back and said “Hey David, why are you wasting all that time practicing ‘Money for Nothing’ when you could be out feeding the hungry like a real Christian would do?”
October 14th, 2005 at 3:05 pm
Eric, thx for validating me at first. ;^) I see the question as being valid to ask of someone else either rhetorically (as we have here) or in the frame of community/accountability (as we have here). I agree that it is a question of introspection. The question can only be answered by the person of whom it is asked. The judgement should come from the evidence in the answer, not the person asking the question. Just as we should be ready to give an account for our faith, we should stop and give ourselves a progress report on the things we are commanded to do as Christians — an account of our Christian journey — whatever form they may take. My post is a call to evaluate and be intentional in a world that does its best to isolate people and to hide hurt and need.
I am in no way saying that serving in the local church is not fruit. It’s where most of mine is grown but still there are so many more fields to plow in my own life ‚Äî so many branches that are socially acceptable but aren’t producing fruit and need to be pruned.
So are you saying that if all that someone can point to when asked about the fruit of their Chrisitian journey is picking up coffee and donuts on the way to Sunday School, then you wouldn’t prod them to examine their faith a bit futher?
Tim, thx for the feedback. Yes, I completely view playing “Money For Nothing” in that context as fruit but pray that I won’t be satisfied by it. I will pass that along to Regina as she also served the Kingdom by watching the kids by herself all week long ‚Äî I had the easy/fun part.
October 14th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
I guess it all depends on the circumstances and context. During that 40 years of “just bringing coffee and doughnuts” she might have also been doing a lot of things that don’t readily come to mind when asked such a question. Perhaps she has been giving faithfully and sacrificially to the local church and supported foreign missionaries. Maybe she has spent more time praying for people in her church than I ever thought about. Maybe she has sacrificed a promising and rewarding career so that she could poured her life into her children. Perhaps three of her grandchildren credit the hours spent on her knee while she recounted stories of God’s faithfulness in her life with how they came to be believers. Perhaps she just forgot to count the final years of her fathers life when Alzheimer’s disease had long since wiped her from his memory but she continued change and bath him and lovingly care for him until he went to be with the Lord.
All I’m saying is that I want to be careful in how I assess other people when I’ve got plenty to worry about with myself.
October 14th, 2005 at 4:05 pm
Well then she should have mentioned that! ;^)
Agreed.
October 15th, 2005 at 10:34 am
We say “we” a lot when we reflect on stuff like this.
When we speak in the first person plural we run the risk of coming across as the self-appointed spokesperson for everyone who can relate to the matter. We run the risk of projecting our own introspective analysis on those around us.
We may intend these reflections to come across as statements about ourselves. However, we must remember that when others read “we” it often sounds like “you.”
Ahhhh… fun with words. Ain’t postmodernist deconstruction grand?
October 15th, 2005 at 11:56 am
It sounds like you are cautioning against being judgemental. I did a search on everytime I said “we” in this thread and find nothing judgemental. (Am I missing something?) I set up my thought process, acknowledge common potential pitfalls and offer universal commandments from Christ to all believers. Then I offer my own findings of myself and I ask the same question of you (you all) to let your own answer be the judge, not me.
Thx for the check as I internalized all the “we’s” in your post. :^)
So, not speaking as a “self-appointed spokes person”, do you not observe a large disconnect in the lifestyle of the average North Atlanta Christian and the teachings of Christ?
October 15th, 2005 at 1:34 pm
Are you are referring to this? The description “endlessly talk about conceptual ideas of faith and belief” is common for every believer I’ve met. I just threw the “and blog” due to the medium. I only asked a pointed question that every believer needs to ask and answer for themselves.
October 16th, 2005 at 7:18 am
That reminds me of something someone I knew used to say… “What do you mean we? Is there a mouse in your pocket?”
October 16th, 2005 at 11:45 am
Nah, when I say “we” in this thread I mean “you all and I.” So in essence it can and should be read as “you.”
October 17th, 2005 at 5:52 am
Just having fun, guys… sorry it reads kinda harsh. Didn’t mean it to zing anybody…
Here’s how it went… I read Eric’s comment (”All I‚Äôm saying is that I want to be careful in how I assess other people when I‚Äôve got plenty to worry about with myself”) and thought I better go back and re-read the original post we’re commenting on.
Here’s an excerpt from the second paragraph with emphasis added:
There’s a transference there… the bits in italics are your “inclusive we” language and the stuff in oblique comprises your case-in-point examples. You start off abstract… then make a specific application to someone else. You make another general statement… then another outwardly-directed assessment.
At that point I stopped reading and made my comment.
David, you’re a honkin’ good writer… I can’t tell you how often I read your stuff and think, “Man, I wish I wrote that.”
But where much has been given, much is required. I guess you’re going to have to live with a burdensome fact: when people read your writing, they are going assume that you meant for them to take it the way they did. Many of them will not write back to ask for clarification.
And then there are those of us who know the real you.
October 18th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
Thanks for the props - now I’m feeling the pressure.
What can I do about people that don’t read my entire statement and proceed to put words in my mouth?
I will see if I can rewrite this in a way that better conveys my thoughts and Biblical truth without sounding like a rant.
Look for a Part 3 soon.