What the Hell?
Regarding a previous post that got on the topic of Joel Osteen, he recently posted an apology to his wishy-washy interview on Larry King LIVE - I think it’s more damage control than an apology though. Anyway, as I was reading over some other blogs about this dude, I noticed a pattern of response in people’s posts defending Joel’s teaching that left me with a question. Everyone who was defending him always said something like, “He is so inspiring. I don’t need some hell fire and brim stone sermon.” So in an attempt to understand where they are coming from I ask, what exactly is a hellfire and brimstone sermon?
I’ve been going to church services a long time, in all different denominations and such, and I’ve never been beat over the head with a Bible. No pastor has ever spent an entire service on the topic of Hell (I wouldn’t mind one though - it’s a topic that people need to know more about). Do people just consider the idea of Hell a big turn off? Do they want to just ignore it and hope that it goes away? (That idea doesn’t work for bullies, why should it work for eternal damnation?) Maybe they think they already know about the Hell thing so why keep bringing it up?
I think that line of thinking is what has gotten the church into the floundering state that it’s currently in. We already know this Gospel thing right? Let’s just move on to more interesting things like Finances or Finding Adventure. Well, how many people can still do long division without a calculator - remember remainders? Use it or lose it baby. How many Christians can present the Gospel to their friends or do they think that’s the preacher’s job? Well, the idea of Hell and acknowledging that you are an undeserving sinner is one of the foundations of the Faith. If you remove the idea of Hell you cheapen what Christ died for. What did He save you from? Did He die to just make a point or just to prove that He was serious about the crazy stuff that He was talking about? Or did He die to pay the price of sin owed to a Just and Holy God?
July 10th, 2005 at 10:29 pm
lol this reminds me of the time I got in trouble at FCHS when I said in class “what the hell?” everybody looked at me like I was dead meat or something… but I never thought it was a bad word growing up. Crazy uptight people… pshh
July 11th, 2005 at 7:05 am
I know the Hellfire and Brimstone sermon. I was lured into a Baptist church as a teenager with the promise of free pizza and a chance to hang out with my girlfriend. Not long after eating some pizza, the lot of kids and I was shuffled into an auditorium. There we were addressed by a man who wanted nothing more than to tell us we were all going to Hell if continued to enjoy life, like going to Six Flags and other means of teenage fun. This man did not communicate the love of God as I know it today. Looking back it was a fractured attempt at sharing the Gospel and telling kids God is far greater then fun had on a rollercoaster. He didn’t even explain depravity, the cross, substitutionary atonement, (which high school student should be able to understand after they have had Algebra) or the resurrection. Actually I don’t remember him reading from a Bible.
To sum it up, all law, no grace is the Hellfire and Brimstone sermon. Its presenting the problem with no solution.
July 11th, 2005 at 1:54 pm
see ‘baptist church”… i was raised in a baptist church and i heard a few hell and brimstone messages. to me, it’s simply the preacher yelling that if you don’t know God and accept Jesus as your savior, you’re going to hell. well, that’s true, isn’t it? however, the baptist preachers (at least during the late 60’s/early 70’s) would also teach that if you drink alcohol, if you shake your booty, if percussion instruments were allowed in church and you enjoy them… you’re going to hell. yet, my experiences were the same people who believed the latter, were the same people who constantly talked about others behind their back, who you would see coming out of the liquor store, etc. i recall, my grandparents, whom i love(d) dearly, wanted me to believe that drinkig was a sin, and you would go to hell for drinking. yet, i also recall my grandmother making fruit cake, in which she would douse with bourbon and then take a swig from the bottle. i suppose drinking was ok, if you were making fruit cakes (not to mention, you need to be highly intoxicated to wanna make fruit cake imho, but that’s another blog topic (fruitcake… what the hell? does anyone really eat them?).
i came to Christ at the trender young age of 8. i knew what I was doing, i had already accepted him in my heart as my Lord and Savior, yet being baptist, i was taught to believe that i must walk the isle, publicly confess in the church and must be baptised (fully submersed) before i would really, really, really go to heaven (which i did, so i’m good to go). btw, i came to Christ during a two week baptist revival in which the visiting preacher taught on the book of Revelations; specifically, the mark of the beast. now talk about intimidating and scarry to young kids, i just knew, before i turned 10, i would be forced to make a choice to die or take “the mark” if i wanted to continue to buy toys, etc. i mean, the preacher told the entire congregation, that we all would be forced to take this mark within a few years.
but perhaps, i digress. what was my point? perhaps i just felt like rambling. maybe i just wanted to post something on the ennis blog.
i have listened to joel osteen preach before… if you want a “feel good” message, his is the place. some very good milk, but not a lot of meat. does God use a man like joel to reach the lost? absolutely. is joel the ideal person to teach me? i don’t think so. does he have a beautiful wife? i’ll let you decide.
finally, when i read esh’s reply, i was reminded about a topic on the fbc intranet years ago, regarding the word, “sucks”. at the time i was offended, thought it was a cuss word, how could anyone use that word in a church environment? since then, while raising two young kids, i have come to realize there are many misconceptions about certain words often thought of as cuss words, especially amongst Christians. the other thing is, if you want your young kids to use certain words, tell them, “you can’t say that, it’s a cuss word”. yeah, that works everytime (like eating breath mints if you’ve been drinking and get pulled over by the cops… fools them everytime).
i know, i’ve been all over the place with this post, but for some reason, it just felt like a good therapy session. what the heck!
July 12th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
better than WTF